The decision did not stop the voting itself, and a spokesman for the Nai Aupuni continued to encourage those eligible to vote before the November 30, 2015, deadline. What do you think? Later, in the 1830s, they moved their focus to the sugar trade. 96% voted YES!!! It has pursued its agenda through educational initiatives and legislative actions. Kahau said that "protest" and "sovereignty group" mischaracterize the group, but that it is a seat of government. [16][95], U.S. census information shows approximately 401,162 Native Hawaiians living in the U.S. in 2000. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. [50] Trask has been critical of the bill's 20-year limitation on all claims against the U.S., saying: "We would not be able to address the illegal overthrow, address the breach of trust issues" and "We're looking at a terrible history. That history needs to be remedied. The tribunal found the U.S. guilty, and published its findings in a lengthy document filed with the U.N. To take either course would be to disregard a principle which goes to heart of the arbitral function in international law. In 1893, U.S. Marines invaded the island and overthrew the Queen. It is simply too far out in the ocean. They dream of Hawaii returning to the days before the U.S. takeover, and some even hope for a restoration of the monarchy. The court agreed to hear the case but ultimately made no ruling, saying it could not even consider the issue because "the United States of America is not a party to the proceedings and has not consented to them". Native Hawaiian Legal Corporation Executive Director Mahealani Kamauu has said that only in the last 25 years have Native Hawaiians "had a modicum of political empowerment and been able to exercise direct responsibility for their own affairs, that progress has been made in so many areas". ", "International Arbitration Larsen vs. Hawaiian Kingdom", "Most provocative notion in Hawaiian affairs", "Dr. David Keanu Sai (Hawaiian flag raised with others)", "Permanent Court of Arbitration: About Us", "Native Hawaiians seek to restore monarchy", "Group of Hawaiians occupies Iolani Palace, vows to return", "Kanuha Found Not Guilty Of Obstruction on Mauna Kea", "How Lanakila Mangauil came to Mauna Kea", "Musical Melanesianism: Imagining and Expressing Regional Identity and Solidarity in Popular Song and Video", "Reconciliation at a Crossroads: The Implications of the Apology Resolution and Rice v. Cayetano for Federal and State Programs Benefiting Native Hawaiians", "Interior Considers Procedures to Reestablish a Government-to-Government Relationship with the Native Hawaiian Community", "Office of Hawaiian Affairs: Rant vs. Reason on Race", "Supreme Court of the United States: Opinion of the Court", "Interior Department announces procedure for Native Hawaiian recognition", "Interior Proposes Path for Re-Establishing Government-to-Government Relationship with Native Hawaiian Community", "Critics: Hawaiian constitutional convention election process is flawed", "Fed Appeals Court Won't Stop Hawaiian Election Vote Count", "Opponents Ask High Court to Block Native Hawaiian Vote Count", "Supreme Court Justice Intervenes in Native Hawaiian Election", Paradoxes of Hawaiian Sovereignty: Land, Sex, and the Colonial Politics of State Nationalism, "Native Hawaiians Study Commission Report GrassrootWiki", Hui Aloha Aina Anti-Annexation Petitions, 18971898, "Pride in Hawaiian Culture Reawakened: Seeds of Sovereignty Movement Sown during 1960s70s Renaissance", Native Hawaiians battle in the courts and in Congress, Political tsunami hits Hawaii, by Rubellite Kawena Kinney Johnson, Blog of articles and documents on Hawaiian sovereignty, Sovereign Stories: 100 Years of Subjugation, Resolution on Knaka Maoli Self-Determination and Reinscription of Ka Pae ina (Hawaii) on the U.N. list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, Connection between Hawaiian health and sovereignty, 2004 Presentation given by Umi Perkins at a Kamehameha Schools research conference, Documents and essays opposing sovereignty, Muslim Independence Movement (Philippines),, Articles with dead external links from March 2020, Articles with permanently dead external links, All Wikipedia articles written in American English, Articles containing Hawaiian-language text, Articles to be expanded from January 2016, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2016, Articles with self-published sources from February 2020, Articles with dead external links from November 2022, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. And B-I-N-G-O was his name OH! The case was appealed with a formal emergency request to stop the voting until the appeal was heard; the request was denied. [70], Hayden Burgess, an attorney who goes by the Hawaiian name Poka Laenui, heads the Institute for the Advancement of Hawaiian Affairs. The effort to regain Kahoolawe from the U.S. Navy inspired new political awareness and activism in the Hawaiian community. What would happen if Hawaii seceded? The act created the Hawaiian Sovereignty Advisory Committee to provide guidance with "(1) Conducting special elections related to this Act; (2) Apportioning voting districts; (3) Establishing the eligibility of convention delegates; (4) Conducting educational activities for Hawaiian voters, a voter registration drive, and research activities in preparation for the convention; (5) Establishing the size and composition of the convention delegation; and (6) Establishing the dates for the special election. It was essentially an act of desperation. "[51] The organization was a part of UNPO from 1993 through 2012. President Barack Obama supported the bill. New Haven and London: Yale University Press. [83], About 70 members of one separatist group, the "Hawaiian Kingdom Government", which claimed about 1,000 members in 2008, chained the gates and blocked the entrance to Iolani Palace for about two hours, disrupting tours on April 30, 2008. The constitution passed last month would seemto allow for federal recognition as well as the possibility of complete independence at a futuredate. "The only thing I knew about Hawaiians was what I saw in television and the tourism ads," he says. [73] Charles Maxwell and other community leaders began to plan a coordinated effort to land on the island, which was still under Navy control. In this case, Hawaii would become an independent country, it would become a member of the United Nations, it would probably become a member of relevant Pacific international trade and military partnerships, and become closer to Asian countries than to the United States. The most likely course of an independent Hawaii would be if Japan annexed it and America had to fight to liberate Hawaii from Japanese control much like how The Philippines gained independence. [78], Sai claimed to represent the Hawaiian Kingdom in Larsen v. Hawaiian Kingdom, a case brought before the World Court's Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague in 2000. [62], Kealoha Pisciotta is a former systems specialist for the joint British-Dutch-Canadian telescope[63][64] who became concerned that a stone family shrine she had built for her grandmother and family was removed and found at a dump. The Native Hawaiian Roll Commission has since purged the list of names of deceased persons as well as those whose mailing or email addresses could not be verified. [33], On September 29, 2015, the United States Department of the Interior announced a procedure to recognize a Native Hawaiian government. [35], The Royal Order of Kamehameha I continues its work in observance and preservation of some native Hawaiian rituals and customs established by the leaders of the Kingdom of Hawaii. [9][10] The forced depopulation of Kaho'olawe and its subsequent bombing, the construction of the Mauna Kea telescope, and the Red Hill water crisis caused by the US Navy's mismanagement are some of the contemporary issues relevant to the sovereignty movement. Pro-independence activists still say that federal recognition isn'tenoughthey want to leave the U.S. completely. The Hawaiian sovereignty movement (Hawaiian: ke ea Hawaii) is a grassroots political and cultural campaign to reestablish an autonomous or independent nation or kingdom of Hawaii out of a desire for sovereignty, self-determination, and self-governance. By 1969 that number had jumped to a million and a half. By the 1850s, the sugar industry became a well-established sector in Hawaii. That could tell us much about people's enthusiasm for . After annexation, students were not allowed to speak Hawaiian in school, and the language almost died out as a result. Louisiana. It negotiated rights to be on the lawn of the grounds during regular hours normally open to the public by applying for a public-assembly permit. US military might and a welcoming government in the Republic of Hawaii helped complete the process. But Apo says he can see where the opposition is coming from. The Hawaiian Kingdom was a multi-ethnic government, and that's how it should remain, he says, something that wouldn't happen under federal recognition. Poverty set in for native Hawaiians who did not find the respect previous generations had in school and society at large. "For a great many Native Hawaiians we feel disfranchised," said Zuri Aki, a delegate who supported independence and helped draft the constitution. Kanahele was a primary leader of the occupation. [43] Trask was elected the first kia'aina (governor) of Ka Lahui. Joshua Lanakila Managuil, a young activist who is running for a seat on the 'aha, says he's lucky to be the product of a Native Hawaiian cultural and political renaissance, but he's worried about the ramifications of federal recognition. It is a real danger. "It's an uphill battle for the sovereignty groups.". Hawaiians are the only major native group without these kinds of institutions. They dream of Hawaii returning to the days before the U.S. takeover, and some even hope for a restoration of the monarchy. One delegate candidate has already dropped out, calling the 'aha "not pono" (upright or fair). Your email address will not be published. The commission assigned to the study recommended against reparations. It depends on how you look at things. This was not a good time, as they had no self governance and were merely being exploited. [citation needed], The Aboriginal Lands of Hawaiian Ancestry (ALOHA) and the Principality of Aloha[38] were organized sometime in the late 1960s or '70s when Native Alaskan and American Indian activism was beginning. Self-determination". Such governments hold their own elections, run police departments, courts and other internal infrastructure on reservation land. But first things first. The bill makes a commitment to reconciliation. "I think if we're able to get to at least to the government-to-government relationship - the stage where we're actually negotiating - that would cap the 123 years with a good ending to the story and a great future for Hawaiians in being able to maintain their identity as a people," Apo says. What happens from here? Well said. In restoring Hawaii as an independent country, the concept of harmony is way more important . "I would say the majority of Hawaiians don't agree with sovereignty and independence - either they don't know their history or they think it's way too late to separate from the US," he says. There wouldn't be a largeNative Hawaiian reservation, reparations, orcasinos, said Williamson Chang, a University of Hawaii law professor. and its sister group, Mauna Kea Hui, are indigenous Native Hawaiian cultural groups with environmental concerns in Hawaii. Those who supported the American sugar trade did not like the new Queen and her ways. What everyone can agree on is the hurt done to Native Hawaiians. [86], In 1993, the State of Hawaii adopted Act 359 "to acknowledge and recognize the unique status the native Hawaiian people bear to the State of Hawaii and to the United States and to facilitate the efforts of native Hawaiians to be governed by an indigenous sovereign nation of their own choosing." [79][80] Although Sai and Lance Paul Larsen agreed to the arbitration, with Larsen suing Sai for not protecting his rights as a Hawaiian Kingdom subject, his actual goal was to have U.S. rule in Hawaii declared a breach of mutual treaty obligations and international law. [16] Between 1990 and 2000, people identifying as Native Hawaiian had grown by 90,000, while those identifying as pure Hawaiian had declined to under 10,000. The New York Sun said: "Mr. Cleveland lacks the first essential qualification of a referee or arbitrator." [85] Led by Mahealani Kahau, who has taken the title of queen, and Jessica Wright, who has taken the title of princess, it has been meeting daily to conduct government business and demand sovereignty for Hawaii and restoration of the monarchy. Such a path has been long open to Native American groups on the mainland, but not to the descendants of Hawaii's indigenous people. On January 11, 1894, Willis revealed the invasion to be a hoax. Hawaii was an independent monarchy, ruled by Queen Liliuokalani, and exported sugar to the U.S. Independence would grant Puerto Rico a platform to address the debt crisis on its own terms and afford the island's 3.5 million inhabitants the right to self-determination. [12][8] In 2000, the Akaka Bill was proposed, which provided a process for federal recognition of Native Hawaiians and gave ethnic Hawaiians some control over land and natural resource negotiations. The Hawaiian Kingdom, or Kingdom of Hawaii ( Hawaiian: Ke Aupni o Hawai'i ), was a sovereign state located in the Hawaiian Islands. He argues under international law, one country can only annex another by treaty - a document which both parties sign. [66] Mauna Kea Anaina Hou ("People who pray for the mountain",[67][self-published source?]) Like other issues that have been stymied in the polarised legislature, the administration has now decided to take action through the executive branch. It is also true they will be GLAD to take complete political control and turn the islands into a satellite of their countries. He and others "are putting ourselves into the mix in order to protect the rights of our people," Managuil says. "If that doesn't happen this is never going to stop. Michigan. The most likely course of an independent Hawaii would be if Japan annexed it and America had to fight to liberate Hawaii from Japanese control much like how The Philippines gained independence. If full independence for Hawaii ever happens, it would probably come generations in the future. The wealthy white plantation owners on the island still rise up, but establish their own nation instead, potentially keeping Queen Liliuokalani as a figurehead monarch in order to make sure the native Hawaiians don't rise up. 0:00 / 17:00 What if Hawaii Was Never Annexed By America? Anything else - including what happened in Hawaii - is an occupation, Chang says. There are also various legal challenges which could undermine any vote. Forty delegates from across the islands will meet in February to discuss whether there should be a Native Hawaiian government and what it should look like in the 21st Century. American opponents argue that Congress is disregarding U.S. citizens for special interests and sovereignty activists believe this will further erode their rights, as the 1921 blood quantum rule of the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act did. These adventuresome souls came by double canoes with large sails, latched together with rope and a central platform. Davianna McGregor, a University of Hawaiiethnic studies professorand another delegate who voted in favor of the constitution, said groupsare soliciting donationsand hope to hold avote to ratifythe documentby the end of 2016. Yesterday, Hillary Clinton released a statementcommending the delegates for approving a constitution and vowing to support Native Hawaiian nationhood. I'm not interested in that answer, as people always assume Hawaiians would never have the agency to operate and defend the islands on their own. August 21, 1959 followed a referendum where more than 93% Hawaiian citizens voted for Hawaii to become a state. [109] On November 27, Kennedy stopped the election tallying and naming of delegates. Learn from the past, dont live in the past. [53] The group began in the late 1980s as the P Kaukau coalition with the aim to supply information that could support the sovereignty and independence movement. In 1900, Hawaii became a formal US territory, and then finally in 1959, it became the 50th US state. The New York Recorder wrote, "The idea of sending out a minister accredited to the President of a new republic, having him present his credentials to that President and address him as 'Great and Good Friend,' and then deliberately set to work to organize a conspiracy to overthrow his Government and re-establish the authority of the deposed Queen, is repugnant to every man who holds American honor and justice in any sort of respect." Scan this QR code to download the app now. But sovereignty groups opposed the bill because of its provisions that legitimized illegal land transfers, and it was criticized by a 2006 U.S. Commission on Civil Rights report (which was later reversed in 2018)[13] for the effect it would have on non-ethnic Hawaiian populations. is the group's spokesperson and head of state. Unexploded ordnance still remains on the island even after a clean-up attempt. Report Committee Foreign Relations, United States Senate, Accompanying Testimony, Executive Documents transmitted Congress January 1, 1893, March 10, 1891, p 2144, History of later years of the Hawaiian Monarchy and the revolution of 1893 By William De Witt Alexander, p 103, US federal recognition of Native Hawaiians, Opposition to the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, opposition to the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, U.S. District Court for the District of Hawaii, chained the gates and blocked the entrance to Iolani Palace, The Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act of 2009 (S1011/HR2314), indigenous peoples of continental America, United States federal recognition of Native Hawaiians, Opposition to the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom, "Kanahele group pushes plan for sovereign nation", "The Rape of Paradise: The Second Century Hawai'ians Grope Toward Sovereignty As The U.S. President Apologizes", "As Feds Hold Hearings, Native Hawaiians Press Sovereignty Claims", "The Struggle For Hawaiian Sovereignty Introduction", "Historic election could return sovereignty to Native Hawaiians", "Civil Rights Panel Backs Federal Recognition For Native Hawaiians", "Recent Survey of Hawaii residents shows two out of three oppose Akaka bill", "The Hawai'i-United States Treaty of 1826", "Newlands Resolution Annexation of Hawaii", "Towards Hawaiian Independence: Native Americans warn Native Hawaiians of the dangers of Federal Recognition", "Way of the Warrior: Native Hawaiian lecture series reveals ancient secrets", "Spiritual connection of Queen Liliuokalani's book "Hawaii's Story" to the forming of the Aboriginal Lands of Hawaiian Ancestry (ALOHA) to get reparations from the United States Of America for the Illegal Overthrow of 1893", "Women of Hawaii; Hawaiian women chart their own path to power", "Akaka bill and Ka Lahui Hawaii position explained", "Akaka bill proponents prepare to wait for passage amid weightier concerns; But others say the bill is flawed and should be fixed before a full congressional vote", "A Century After Queen's Overthrow, Talk of Sovereignty Shakes Hawaii", "United States' Compliance with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights", "Waimanalo Blues: The political and cultural pitfalls into which Cameron Crowe's, "Bridging science and culture with the Thirty Meter Telescope", "World's Largest Telescope Faces Opposition from Native Hawaiian Protesters", "Mauna Kea and the work of the Imiloa Center", "Walter Ritte, Andrew Kimbrell address Hawaii SEED event", "Hawaii: Independent Nation or Fiftieth State? But in 2000, a panel of the committee stated that Native Hawaiians have maintained a unique community. In 1898 it was annexed as a U.S. terrirtory, becoming a state in 1959. . By the time of the overthrow in 1893, the Hawaiian population had gone from at least 400,000 to less than 40,000 people - all in the space of a century, in part because of diseases introduced into the islands. Read about our approach to external linking. Apo has a clear preference, but whatever happens, he says, "at least it will be something that Hawaiians decided. The independence drive has gained steam over the last couple of years, especially after a proposal to build a telescope on top of Native Hawaiians' most sacred mountain launched a vigorous protest movement. The New York World wrote: "Is it not high time to stop the business of interference with the domestic affairs of foreign nations? Dudley, Michael K., and Agard, Keoni Kealoha (1993 reprint). 3 centuries ago. Realistically, it's hard to imagine how the U.S. would voluntarily give up a resource like Pearl Harbor, or what would happen to non-Native Hawaiians living in the state. [46]:394 Trained as a U.S. military officer, Sai uses the title of chairman of the Acting Council of Regency of the Hawaiian Kingdom organization. In 1993, President Bill Clinton signed United States Public Law 103-150, known as the "Apology Bill", for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow. [25] In a December 19, 1893, meeting with the leaders of the provisional government, Willis presented a letter by Liliuokalani in which she agreed to grant the revolutionaries amnesty if she were restored as queen. Before 1775 the patriots generally desired to remain within the British Empire. Local Businesses Recent Listings. Exactly how to make that happen is a matter open for discussion, creativity, prodding, poking and the testing of different approaches. This is our country.". [54], Blaisdell and the 12 groups that comprise the Ka Pkaukau believe in a "nation-within-a-nation" concept as a start to independence and are willing to negotiate with the President of the United States as "representatives of our nation as co-equals". Helm and Mitchell (who were accompanied by Billy Mitchell, no relation) ran into severe weather and were unable to reach Kahoolawe. In 1976, Walter Ritte and the group Protect Kahoolawe Ohana (PKO) filed suit in U.S. federal court to stop the Navy's use of Kahoolawe for bombardment training, to require compliance with a number of new environmental laws, and to ensure protection of cultural resources on the island. Answer (1 of 10): Without all the federal money that Hawaii receives every year the islands would get a lot more expensive. [71] Laenui argues that because of the four international treaties with the U.S. government (1826, 1849, 1875, and 1883), the "U.S. armed invasion and overthrow" of the Hawaiian monarchy, a "friendly government," was illegal in both American and international jurisprudence.[72]. [47], Ka Lhui and many sovereignty groups oppose the Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act of 2009 (known as the "Akaka Bill") proposed by Senator Daniel Akaka, which begins the process of federal recognition of a Native Hawaiian government, with which the U.S. State Department would have government-to-government relations. When the Queen was overthrown, Hawaii became a US protectorate. Our history is painful and ugly in some ways, said Jade Danner, a Native Hawaiian delegate who voted in favor of the new constitution. Barack Obama publicly supported the last attempt to gain the recognition option through Congress. Kanahele knows independencedoesn'tseem feasibleto many Americansbuthe doesn't care. One of its goals is to reclaim ceded lands. The archipelago of Hawaii actually encompasses hundreds of islands with most of them being formed from volcanic activity but when most people think of the State they are thinking of the 8 large and habitable islands of the chain. The history behind thisdebategoes back to 1893, when a group of U.S. businessmen andsoldiersoverthrew the Hawaiian kingdom, stealing land and natural resources. Video, On board the worlds last surviving turntable ferry, AI pioneer warns of dangers as he quits Google, Yellen warns US could run out of cash in a month, Shooting suspect was deported four times - US media, Photo of Princess Charlotte shared as she turns 8, King Charles to wear golden robes for Coronation, More than 100 police hurt in French May Day protests, Explosion derails train in Russian border region, Street piano confiscated as public 'break rules'. No, Hawaii isn't able to be stable as it's own independent nation in modern times. Many in the room at the Hawaiian state capitol began singing along. [102], The year of hearings found most speakers with strong opposition to the U.S. government's involvement in Hawaiian sovereignty,[103] with opponents arguing that tribal recognition of Native Hawaiians is not a legitimate path to Hawaiian nationhood and that the U.S. government should not be involved in reestablishing Hawaiian sovereignty. In its decision, the court wrote: "the ancestral inquiry mandated by the State is forbidden by the Fifteenth Amendment for the further reason that the use of racial classifications is corruptive of the whole legal order democratic elections seek to preserve.Distinctions between citizens solely because of their ancestry are by their very nature odious to a free people whose institutions are founded upon the doctrine of equality". The decision for independence Fifteen months after the beginning of hostilities, the Second Continental Congress proclaimed American independence. The Nation of Hawaii is the oldest Hawaiian independence organization. The movement initiated what became known as the Wilcox Rebellion of 1889, ending in failure with seven dead and 70 captured. If a Native Hawaiian referendum is held and the constitution is approved, then a government would have to be elected and established. Native Hawaiians began organizing groups based on their own national interests such as ceded lands, free education, reparations payments, free housing, reform of the Hawaiian Homelands Act and development within the islands. [16] Proposals have been made to treat Native Hawaiians as a tribe similar to Native Americans; opponents to the tribal approach argue that it is not a legitimate path to nationhood. [42]:62 It is considered the largest sovereignty movement group, claiming a membership of 21,000 in 1997. The population now is nearly 1.5 million. Welcome to HistoryWhatIf! To report comments that you believe do not follow our guidelines, Hawaiians have seen a cultural renaissance since the 1970s - re-establishing cultural and religious practices and the Hawaiian language. [96] The bill is considered a reconciliation process, but it has not had that effect, instead being the subject of much controversy and political fighting in many arenas. Was all of this good for Hawaii? "The Kahoolawe Nine" continued and landed on the island. Despite extensive rescue and recovery efforts, they were never recovered. Local and federal legislation provided some protection for native communities but did little to quell expanding commercial development. 'A Blatant Effort to Intimidate a Witness', Joe Biden Is Now Making Up Total Fiction About His Iraq War Vote, Trump Pulls a Charlottesville and Says He Hates All Kinds of 'Supremacy'. [8], Sovereignty advocates have attributed problems plaguing native communities including homelessness, poverty, economic marginalization, and the erosion of native traditions to the lack of native governance and political self-determination. Americans and others came to plant sugar cane on the islands and cultivate it, and missionaries came to modernize the Hawaiian people. Explore in 3D: The dazzling crown that makes a king. [33], The Royal Order of Kamehameha I is a Knightly Order established by His Majesty, Kamehameha V (Lot Kapuaiwa Kalanikapuapaikalaninui Ali'iolani Kalanimakua) in 1865, to promote and defend the Kingdom of Hawaii's sovereignty. Hawaii became yet another trophy of the Age of Imperialism. [citation needed], After Hawaii's annexation, Wilcox formed the Home Rule Party of Hawaii on June 6, 1900. Privacy Policy. Its purpose is to promote and defend the sovereignty of the Kingdom of Hawaii. By participating in online discussions you The New York Times was one of the few New York newspapers to defend Cleveland's decisions, writing, "Mr. Willis discharged his duty as he understood it. During the following decades, the sugar trade in Hawaii continued to blossom. [21][22] After the arrival of the Corwin, the provisional government and citizens of Hawaii were ready to rush to arms if necessary, but it was widely believed that Willis's threat of force was a bluff. In June 2014, the US Department of the Interior announced plans to hold hearings to establish the possibility of federal recognition of Native Hawaiians as an Indian tribe. Medical care was free for all at first, and then even native Hawaiians were forced to pay. Mililani Trask was its first leader. There are savings on everyday items you already buy, and savings on the things youve been waiting for a sale on to spoil your pet with. The United States and the Hawaiian Kingdom: A Political History. But due to its radical and extreme philosophy of Hawaiian nationalism, infighting was prominent. This did a lot to change the traditional political, economic, religious, and cultural ways of life in Hawaii that had, up until this point, been around for over one thousand years. glasgow royal concert hall view from my seat, virgo daily horoscope by kamal kapoor,
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